"LUTHS FROM OTHER CHURCHES" by ROBERT LONGMAN, Jan. 10, 1991 at 18:24 Eastern
about WELCOME! (529 characters & 2 notes)
This discussion is created in hopes of gathering in the
experiences of Lutherans who either were at one time part of a
non-Lutheran church or were raised in a non-Lutheran faith.
It is intended to try to get at why the change was made (whether
the cause is simple or complex, please share), what those first
experiences were like, what you have learned or how you have
changed since then, and what still seems strange to you about
Lutherans. Hopefully, we can learn from you, and from the
experiences.
Thanks.
Robert Longman
=====================================
From : RLongman1
I created this discussion because I wanted to hear from people who
chose to be Lutheran why they chose to be Lutheran. It is a matter
on which my own experience is pretty muddy.
Muddy? How? Either you *are* raised as something, or you are *not*,
some of you would wonder. Let me explain.
On the one hand, I can be described as a childhood Lutheran. My
mother's side of the family, through her mother, was (and still is)
Missouri Synod Lutheran. (Her father was very nominally Augustana.)
And, I was confirmed in an ALC 'mission' church.
However, I can also lay claim to being raised as a non-Lutheran. I
was baptized Episcopal, at St. Ann's in Sayville NY. My father's
side of the family was Episcopal all the way through : on his
father's side as far as he could trace (only two generations back),
and on his mother's side as far back as the Colonial days. Faith was
not a regular or visible part of our family life. I was dropped off
at an ALC church so I could learn right from wrong, not so I could
learn to love God or in any way 'be Lutheran'.
Even if that were not so, this particular congregation was no place
to learn any of those three things. It went through a number of
what I now see as non-Lutheran apostasies : a period of the worship
of human reason over the God revealed in Scripture; a period of
exploration of Christianity's Jewish roots which degenerated into the
Shoresh Yishai messianic cult; a period of total confusion and lack
of identity; and a period of legalistic Pentecostalism ((by which I
do *not* mean 'charismatic Lutheran', which is not at all an
apostasy)). It has since stabilized as a "believers' church" in the
Lutheran Brethren. I stepped away upon graduating high school, but
was never far from the mess as it regressed.
I also spent a considerable time in a bible study fellowship of a
leading *Dutch Reformed* church. I attended *Baptist* VBS, a
*Methodist* youth group, worked closely with *InterVarsity* while in
college, and wrote for local *fundamentalist* magazines for most of
the early '80s. Not to mention the subtle sense of latent
*Catholicism* which seeps into even the most resistant Long Island
Protestants (but not, it seems, the Catholics !). Most of all, my
Christian education beyond the high school level was and still is
mostly self-taught, grabbing from so many sources I couldn't begin to
enumerate them.
So I myself feel the feelings of both a new Lutheran of only about
six years or so of clear identity, **and** of someone who has deep
roots in the Lutheran heritage. It's a tension, but it can be a
creative one.
Those of you who were not at all raised Lutheran have a different
sort of tension. Your younger life was lived and your mental
framework was developed with a different set of documents, key words,
beliefs, style, culture. Those are a part of you, in ways of which
you may not be aware. On top of that is your own (growing, I
presume) 'Lutheranness', perhaps even starting to develop while in
other churches or before joining a church. A few people have so
reconciled the tensions that they said they felt no 'otherness' to
being Lutheran. Most will always chafe against some aspects of
being Lutheran.
The question I now ask of you is : how does this work itself through
in the current shape of your faith??
Robert Longman
====================================
From : Paul M.
Robert,
Interesting opening note here. Got me thinking about how my traditions and
church background affect my view of Lutheranism.
I was born and baptised Roman Catholic is an industrial town in Northwest
England. At age six there was a conflict between my parents and the local
parish priest over the issue of education and my learning. I was pulled
out of the Catholic Church and School. At that time my mother was
condemned to hell and damnation for all eternity by the parish priest.
Other than weddings and funerals she has never been to church since.
I was put across the street in a public school system. Most of my friends
were Methodist, so I went methodist. At age 11 I joined the boy Scouts and
that was connected with the Church of England so that is where I went.
Somewhere around 13-14 I threw the whole lot out. I got dragged to church
a couple of times in college by my girlfriend but was basically an
unbeliever.
I then came to the US and had a miserable first year here, for many many
reasons. I was looking for something and did not know what. Through the
wife of the ALC missionary in Nome, Alaska she got me thinking in terms of
Christ and the church. I returned to Madison, Wisonsin and got heavily
involved in Campus Ministry there.
The result was going from unbeliever to seminary in less than one year. I
greaduated from LSTC in 1981. Served a two point rural parish in
Northcentral Ohio for nearly five years. Then went to NY to work on
national staff for the LCA as Assistant Director for Telecommunications.
This meant that I was responsible for video and audio productions. The
computer networkin side developed while I was there.
One of the benefits of of my varied background in terms of denominational
experience and the variety of positions held within the churhc means, for
me at least, a broad perspective on what it means to me a Lutheran. There
is some breadth there rather than a narrow definition.
Why did I choose Lutheranism. (Back to the point - right). For me it was
that appeal to all the sense. There is a strong intellectual appeal. I was
an engineer when I came into the church. There is also a sense that
through the worship service the senses are appealed to. I like the music
of the church. For me it was a place that I was made to FEEL welcome. A
place that I could belong. As a Strong SJ on the Myers Briggs testing this
need to belong is very important to me, as it is to 50% of the church.
Paul (written on 04/07/91)
=====================================
From : Bob Nls.
Hi,
I, also am a former Roman...
I entered a monastery in the Mojave Desert when I was 19. It was quite
controversial among the brothers since I was so young. The Prior's wishes won
over and I was professed in my 21st year.... after three years I was sent to
the Dominicans in Berkeley (a rather conservative lot) to study... I joined
them the next year and stayed with the Dominicans for four years. Their
reactionism, and my growing understanding of the conflicts involved in being a
Roman cleric, prompted my leaving the Order in 1978. I am now a happy Lutheran
layperson... quite active in my San Francisco church, and in Synod, and
National issues around health care and the poor.
-Bob
===================================
From : Glenndy S.
I'm Lutheran now, but it took me a looong time to get here again. I was
baptized Lutheran as a baby but when I was a child, my folks got involved
in the charismatic movement. It (the movement) was really new then, and
they were given the "left foot of fellowship" by the local Lutheran pastor.
We spent years (and I mean YEARS) in the Assemblies of God and other
non-denominational churches.
But when I was a junior at (yes, really) Oral Roberts University, I started
attending an Episcopal church and really enjoyed the liturgy and the
formality and the worshipfulness of the services. In the meantime, my
parents were returning the Lutheran church and so we all became Lutheran
again shortly thereafter. I feel like I really belong here -- it's been
quite a journey for me, though. I've still got a lot of fundamentalist in
me and probably always will. But the move from law to grace has been
miraculous for me -- it's so freeing.
And that's probably the biggest joy of all for me in being Lutheran -- I
don't have to EARN forgiveness, or heaven, or love, or grace, or any of
that. What a wonder!
So thanks for starting this meeting -- it's always good to reflect back
with thanksgiving...
==========================================
From : Roy L.
Re: #2832 from Mark J on May 29, 1993
Mark,
> Another Welshman! There are two of us in the ELCA! The Johns side has
been here about five generations. My mother's family, the Roberts side,
got here a little later. Everyone on both sides is a Welsh Methodist,
which is what I would have been had my father not landed the organist job
at the Augustana Lutheran congregation down the block just before I was
born. I tell folks that I was kidnapped by Swedes as an infant, and
truly at Lutheran by the grace of God!
And where two or three are gathered together.....
The story of how you came to be a Lutheran and not something else strikes a
responsive chord. Most of the family are Presbyterians, but all of the
rest are Methodists, except for my parents and an aunt (who also is a
Lutheran). My Mom (a Methodist) and my Dad (a Presbyterian) started going
to a young couples club at Hebron Evangelical Lutheran Church in East
Pittsburgh, PA, when they were newly married. It was the only church that
had such a club and it was made up of couples from lots of churches in the
area and also those who had no church home. Since no one had any money,
these gatherings were about the only social life folks had. And they
joined the church. More than 50 years later (55 or so actually), they
STILL belong to that congregation and most of their closest friends remain
those they met through that couples club.
I, as a kid, played the organ and had jobs at lots of different
churches--Episcopal, Presbyterian, an EUB (isn't that a blast from the
past), and my own. And I decided that the church to which my parents
belonged was the one to which I wanted to belong.
What interesting paths there are that bring us to choose a specific church
family as our home. It was very good to hear from you. Maybe we should
make a date to celebrate St. David's Day when it next rolls around.
Roy, in Ridgefield CT
====================================
From : Sandie G.
Can I tell you about my family? My Dad went to school at St. John, but by
the time he was confirmed, I think his only contact with the church was the
baseball team. In my whole life I never remember seeing him in church except for special occasions -- weddings, graduations, etc. My Mom was baptized Lutheran only because it was a compromise position for her Catholic/Baptist parents. In her growing up years her Mom sent her to whatever church was close. Since the family moved a lot, she worshiped in many knds of churces but never a Lutheran one.
The first person to take a serious interest in my religious upbringing was
a neighbor who was also a member at St John, where Dad was still on the
rolls. She started taking me to SS when I was 7 and later to church.
Through that contact the pastor approached my Mother and she and her
sisters were confirmed at St John as adults. For a few years we were
almost a church family. At least Mom and my brother went. Never Dad.
When the public schools were intergrated in New Orleans, my parents sent me to St. John for school. Without that circumstance I would never have gone to that school, and I don't know where I'd be now. The school and its teachers were a Godsend.
Like a lot of kids I dropped away from church in my college years. When I
got back to town I got involved in church again mostly as a way to make
some new friends. By that time St. John had a pastor who was just the
right man in the right place at the right time. His sermons and teaching
are what led me to "know God" and to come to accept that I was his child.
I wasn't at St. John because my parents brought me there. I was there on
my own as a responsible adult.
I married a man who is not a Christian. He is both the greatest joy and
the greatest pain of my life. Pray for him. It is all I can do.
I spent much of my life, both as adolescent and adult getting up on
Sunday morning, dressing in the dark (try putting on make-up at 6AM in
December) and sneaking out of the house so as not to wake anyone.
The church is the great joy of my life. I sing in the choir, serve on
the council. I'm a lay reader. When we got a new pastor 5 years ago I
was on the call committee.
How do you explain me? By all rights I shouldn't be here.
=========================================
From : Marie S. G.
Ten years ago, when I was painfully in the process of leaving a marrage of
28 years, I switched denominations. I was raised in a parsonage, had a
church vocation, married a minister. Leaving my heritage was hard, but it
was not possible for me to merely attend, so I switched and joined.
In the congregation which I serve, divorce is probably the leading cause of
members becoming inactive or switching. I don't like it, but I understand.
Marie, Kaysville, Utah
=====================================
From : Terry D.
I switched. I grew up in a home with both my mother and father very active
Southern Baptists. We worshipped three times a week at church and daily at
home. My parents were (and still are) loving, sensitive, and caring
parents. Their faith was never a question. At 16 years old, I found a
breach in the wall that held me a prisoner in my parents choices. Later, I
discovered that the breach was put there by understanding parents who knew
that I needed to make my own choices. For over 5 years, I darkened the
door of church as little as possible. I felt unworthy of the fellowship.
The rather judgemental atmosphere of my Baptist youth convinced me that the
churchgoers were just as happy that this unrepentant sinner stayed away.
The time I spent and the way I spent it in the Navy reinforced my opinion
that I was not the kind of person welcome in church.
After the military, I married a Lutheran girl who loved her church, her
Pastor, her Lord, and felt well loved in return. I puzzled at all this
love and acceptance around a church. We then moved halfway accross the
country. I became a Lutheran as I joined a church with her. I was saved.
No kidding. I never heard so much about the love of God, forgiveness,
Grace, and good news in all my life. The people accepted me, cared about
me, and made me feel like I belonged. I grew to know and love my Pastor.
He was such a real person... not the holier than me kind I had known
before. Soon I was on my way to seminary. Here's where it gets GOOD. My
wife of 5 years left me, insisting on divorce. I expected judgement and
rejection from the Church. What I found was Grace. Never had I known such
love! I grew. That was 20 years ago. Here I sit, a Lutheran Pastor. The
girl who led me to this life...long gone...where?..I have no idea. I will
always be grateful to her for leading me the the Lutheran Church where I
found a dedication to the Gospel. Today, beside my Salvation in Christ, my
wife and children are the best thing that ever happened to me. Second best
is my vocation...a job that calls me to share God's love. Third best thing
that ever happened to me...when my first wife wanted a divorce. Perhaps I
shouldn't say, "I switched." Rather, I should say, "I was switched."
Peace to all.
TERRY, RICHMOND, IL.
========================================
From : Tim H.
I can appreciate Terry's statement that "I was switched." I grew up
in a so-so religious family. My father was Southern Baptist, but my mother
had been raised Catholic (although I did not know that she had been
Catholic until my late teens). We lived in front of a Southern Baptist
church and I do remember going to Sunday School, but my parents never went
(at least on a regular basis. When I was in my late teens, one of my
brothers got involved in an Assemblies of God church. My mother started
going to it (the first time she had ever been involved regularly in any
church). After a while I started going to it. I was baptized into the
Assemblies of God church after about 3 years. But then I went to college.
At college I started attending an Assemblies of God small group prayer
meeting and came to feel very "smothered" by the attitude of the group. I
won't say that it is typical of all Assembly of God churches because I know
that it isn't, but this group would only answer questions by saying you had
to have more faith. When I caught myself doing the same thing, I started
looking for answers. I was going to a Catholic college at the time and
started talking to some of the priests on campus. I was received into the
Catholic church in 1980 and am still Catholic.
Tim from Louisville, KY
==========================================
Arlene Bowers (name changed) was raised at an independent Baptist on Long
Island. "Independent Baptist" used to be a redundancy, but now generally
(at least out here) signifies an up-frontedly fundamentalist church (don't
you *dare* call them 'evangelical' -- that term applies to "Billy Graham and
his turncoats"). Her family was one of the founding families of the
congregation, and her father was council president for years.
But she was uncomfortable. "Everything was orderly. Worship was orderly.
Bible study was orderly. Even -- believe it or not -- the youth-camp water
balloon fights were orderly. A place for everything and everything in its
place. And the members were included in those 'everythings'. It made me
feel like a thing." But throughout her teen years, that didn't faze her;
she thought it was the way she was meant to be : "I really didn't think
anything of it."
Not until she became an adult, that is. Once she married (age 20) and had
her first child, she started to take up her expected role in the womens
auxiliary and started gabbing with the other mothers. "I was involved in
teaching Bible to the fifth and sixth graders. The studies were
wide-ranging, because I was letting the kids lead me as to what they were
interested in. They were learning to love the Bible and what it says.
And -- surprise ! -- *I* was learning, *I* was excited, *I* started eating
up my free time with reading the Bible, just like my mother read those
paperback novels!" She was reading *all* the parts of the Bible for the
first time, and was soon interpreting as she was reading, drawing on her
memorization of other passages the Bible. In short order her husband
became as addicted as she was. "All sorts of personal blessings were
opening up. You know, they say it's those little blessings that add up,
well, we had an *avalanche* of little blessings. Nagging illnesses went
away, marital problems improved, my daughter's perception problems left, pay
raises, shared quiet time, and our personal priorities changed." She had
renewed confidence in her abilities to teach and to work with young people.
She had a new directness -- no more long-distance or 'checkbook'
involvements. And, she "felt led" to step forward in the congregation with
her increased knowledge of the Bible.
And that's where the trouble started. The church, it seems, was not open
to the Spirit's leadings, only to its sense of where everyone's *place*
ought to be. Women had their *place*, and Arlene was stepping out of it.
There were also rumblings about "liberation theology" being taught in her
Sunday School classes (of course, being self-taught and politically
conservative, Arlene had no idea of what that was; she was only teaching
from the whole of Scripture, and Scripture's words about justice happened to
be a part of that whole). She tried to assert a place for women in the
teaching authority structure of the church -- that is, that a woman who's
*genuinely equipped* with a gift of the knowledge of Scripture should be
able to freely utilize that knowledge for her congregation. And that was
just too much for them, especially for the auxiliary, which demanded that
she be disciplined.
She was stripped of her Sunday School class, publicly reprimanded, and given
the silent treatment by the other women. Her husband reacted by publicly
and angrily withdrawing his name from membership; she was much more
reluctant, and never did formally quit.
Arlene eventually decided it was time to get involved somewhere else.
Methodism better expressed the moral convictions she and her husband had, so
they joined a United Methodist church a few miles away. It would be very
much unlike her to choose a church for its friendliness or its parking or
its programs; she chose on the basis of theology, and on everything else
she'd "make it fit". Which she has done. She is much more conservative
than her pastor, but says "that just means we have a lot to learn from each
other". She is pro-choice as to law (up to viability) but outspokenly
pro-life as to the morality of the act; she backs that up (in her typical
style) by direct involvement -- at a Birthright center and at prayer vigils.
Her church's hunger efforts similarly benefit from her direct hands-on
style of involvement. And she now does what she loves best : teaching Bible
with high schoolers, running the high school part of the youth program. "I
am doing what I'm called to do", Arlene says, "but I often wonder about the
other girls who grew up at [her former church]. They're so well-trained
that they never even *ask* God what He wants them to be. The Spirit is
screaming for them but their ears have been trained to [be] shut. And life
that's deaf to God is death not life."
Robert Longman
================================
Aroldo Perez Martinez (altered name) is a Latino from Brentwood NY (a Long
Island suburb of New York, with a large Hispanic community). He was
originally from the Bronx, which is where his change occured.
Perez was assigned to a remedial program at a Bronx high school when he
started "making wrong turns", as he puts it. He was active in church youth
affairs at a Catholic parish, though there were not many other youths
involved. He had resisted the street stuff for years, and he wasn't about
to join in now, because his father had raised him to believe that the street
life was certain death to any chances of making something of oneself. Dad
had died three years earlier, and his words were still ringing in his ears.
Mom had retreated from life since then, "rosary-clutching, sobbing all the
time", and thus he and his sisters were raising themselves now. But it was
all getting to be too much of a load, in making up for reading problems, and
especially his seeming inability to keep any girlfriends for more than a
week or two. "I had only my sisters, and they were younger than me, and my
uncle. I went to my parish numerous times, hoping for support or
correction or attention or even understanding, but no. It was like the
priests and the parish leaders there *wanted* to understand, but did not
know how or never took the time or the effort to find out how. I didn't
need *attempts* to help, I needed *help*. That only made me angrier.
Angry at me. Angry at my mother. Angry at the church. Angry at God." He
sought relief in drugs, which his uncle helped obtain for him.
That made worse problems for himself, and also for his sisters who were left
with only themselves as he sunk deeper into addiction. [RHL : One of his
sisters got pregnant at age 15; she ran away seeking escape and an abortion
but was helped by a Catholic parish in New Jersey to keep the child and find
people who cared. *She's* not Catholic anymore, either, due to her joining
the Presbyterian PCA church that her husband attends. The other sister
still lives in the Bronx, loyally attending a Catholic parish.]
He had drifted himself out to Philadelphia, stealing for a fix and living in
unoccupied or abandoned apartment rooms. But one day he was sleeping in
one such room when he was awakened by noise in a room down the hall. It
seems that a charismatic prayer cell was in progress. "I was still dazed,
so it sounded more like chants from heaven, or maybe hell", says Perez.
While he was not 'converted' on that day, it put the whole matter of God and
living right and such back into his mind, and he couldn't get it out, even
while high. One day, "almost unthinkingly", he stumbled into a Baptist
church in South Philly, wandered into the empty sanctuary and just laid
there in front of the pulpit. The sexton saw him there, but instead of
calling the pastor or the police, he called the lady who ran the church's
prayer group; from there on "it was a fountain of love sprinkling down upon
me. And that's how refreshing it felt, too, like a cool shower." The
prayer team brought in the social services coordinator, who brought in a
deacon who was skilled at one-on-one evangelistic witness, who brought in
the pastor, who brought in... well, let's just say that by Sunday it seemed
to Perez that *everybody* got into it. He felt *real* again. He tried to
get off of the drugs as a favor to his new friends, but found out that one
does not just swear off of a physical addiction. It took a while, but the
church found a spot in a treatment program, and he went off drugs for good.
Upon his return, he turned his life back over to Jesus. "I was afraid to do
it. I thought I would become like my mother and like the priests [in his
old parish in the Bronx], blocking off other people. I thought I might
become a holy roller, spitting out damnation onto people in the streets. I
thought that if I'd fall back into drugs it would embarass the people who
showed me so much love. But [the deacon] told me that God forgives those
who turn to him, that God had already forgiven me, so why wasn't I forgiving
myself? So I let go of my fears. I could feel it happen, physically -- my
first full breaths since my father's death." Later, he reconciled with his
still-withdrawn mother.
When Perez got himself a Long Island job (thanks greatly to the excellent
*spoken* English his father taught him) and moved to Brentwood, he thought
of going back to the Catholic church, and had started attending a parish
nearby. "In a way, it was different than the Bronx, more active, more
outreach to the poor. But I still felt a spiritual blockage there. The
do-gooders and the rosary-clutchers, but there's no Spirit to pull it
together." So, he and his wife and daughter are now happily attending a
Baptist church in the area, where he believes it is "pulled together".
When he first joined that church in Philly, he did not do so with even the
slightest thought of the church as somewhere to strengthen the family, yet
now that he *has* a family, he has *discovered* what a church can do. "It
didn't matter at all then, but now it is the very blood of life inside of
me."
Robert Longman
========================================
The story of John Nelson is fairly simple. I myself choke on it a bit
because it reverses the direction I took; I was raised in a broad-Episcopal
heritage but became a Lutheran, while Nelson went from being a nominal LCA
Lutheran to being a 'reborn' Episcopalian.
For Nelson, the change came in his third year of college in the SUNY system.
Though he was vaguely aware of being somehow Lutheran and had been
confirmed, by then matters of religion meant as little to him as it did to
his parents. Science was his bag. But somewhere in this third year, a
question started bugging him. To this day, he cannot remember exactly what
first raised the question to him, though he does vaguely recall it being
something of science-fiction, and was coupled with some extremely
frustrating lab sessions. Science was great at telling him facts and data.
But he started thinking : is there some sort of good to all of this
knowledge? He decided that the only way to know 'good' was to find the
purpose to it all -- leading to the question which just wouldn't leave him
alone : why? Why data, why labs, why science, why life, why *me*? After a
lot of thought, he rejected nihilism; if there is no purpose, then he
himself was an accident, but if he was an accident, then what was impelling
him to ask or even care about 'purpose'? The very fact that he was asking
made nihilism a very unlikely possibility to him.
His moment of truth came just after his girlfriend of two years broke it
off. The question rang louder than ever : why ? When Nelson was troubled,
he'd grab some books and start reading, mainly to take his mind off of
questions. But this time, there was no escaping it. So he became more
directed in his binge reading : books on philosophy and religion. He
figured he'd find something there, if anywhere.
Several of the books he read were by Philip Yancey. Yancey's writings
touched a chord in him; it didn't answer his question, but it redirected his
thinking. He was starting to understand some of what he was going through,
and the possibility that there is a God who loves him was now opened to his
mind. Yancey, Lewis, and Bonhoeffer started the song, but John R.W. Stott
brought it home -- not so much any one idea of Stott's, but the basic
coherence of it all. It launched him into thought : "As I read Stott, many
things occured to me, like, maybe relationships between God and thinking
beings like us *are* the reason why", Nelson explains. "Life exists to
create beings that can love in a manner akin to God, and life is the field
of play from which it all develops. Within that sphere, God's grace and
forgiveness actually makes sense, from his standpoint at least. He's
staking it all to love and to be loved. And that means by *me* and for
*me*, every bit as much as anyone else." Of course, Nelson doesn't claim
that understanding as fact, but he says "I became reasonably sure that I'm
barking up the right tree."
The last link was forged several months after getting his degree, by the
arrival of Billy Graham on Long Island a few years ago. He went to the
Nassau Coliseum, where the Islanders hockey team plays, but caught hardly
anything of Graham. Just about 10 minutes' worth, on the big screen outside
of the Coliseum. The rest of the time was spent talking to a Graham staffer
and two very skeptical kids from nearby Hofstra University. By the time
Graham was done, three newly-committed Christians and a Graham staffer were
deep in prayer. [[RHL : I think I might have walked past them on my way out;
I do recall four guys in prayer undisturbed by the crowds just outside the
entrance, but I don't remember faces.]]
Soon afterward, he joined an Episcopal church near where he lives.
Robert Longman
======================================
From : Bob W. F.
I was 'switched', too, then switched myself some more. My parents attended
a couple of Baptist churches off and on in my youth...I remember leaving one
after a depressing Easter sermon and not going back. Then they went to a
non-denominational church where I ended up in some Christian version of the
Boy Scouts...and was generally unimpressed by the church and pastor. My
parents dropped out, and in high school a worker from Young Life got me into
a Presbyterian church, and my parents followed. Then, after college, when I
met my wife she taught catechetics at a Lutheran church. I started
attending, found that the theology made sense to me and resonated with my
values, and I've been there ever since, with the zeal of a convert. (Most
days).
:-) Bob
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From : Bruce
Count me as switcher. There are a multitude of us ex-Southern Baptists. I
grew up SBC and was ordained at 21 in a SBC church, attended a SBC seminary
for three years and while there discovered the ecumenical church. This was
in the late 60's and I wanted somehow in my ministry to work across
denominational lines and those opportunities as a SB would be limited at
best. I left ministry for about three years and re-entered as a United
Methodist, the church I joined as a layman during the time out. I pastored
for 12 years in UMC appointments, the last four in an ecumenically -related
congregation and then entered ecumenical work full-time. In the process as
a part of my ecumenical witness and because of my growing admiration for
their stance, I asked and received full standing with Disciples. Since
1986, I have maintained dual standing. I worked as a fulltime ecumenist for
the past 8 1/2 years. I decided to return to pastoral ministry in 1992 and
am currently seeking a permanent pastoral call to a Disciple congregation.
I am now serving an interim in a Disciple church in Louisville. I am making
every attempt to not switch, but to maintain the dual relationship with
United Methodists. It remains to be -determined how fully successful that
will be.
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From : Chris L. S.
I just looked in on the meeting. Interested in others' stories. As I grew
up my family moved from denomination to denomination as we moved across the
country. When we moved to England there was only one viable church (The
Church of England) as the local Methodist church left too much to be
desired. When I moved to Wales I remained in the Anglican communion. Before
I came back to the US I was feeling some differences with the Anglicans. Not
consciously, but yet definitely, I was also fighting the call to ordained
ministry. When I came back I looked carefully at denominations for who
they were; and then at the local churches to see whose style of worship was
right for me. At that point I became Presbyterian. Although there are
some things that I do not like in the PC(USA), I believe I have made the
right decision, especially now that my experience of our church has been
broadened in a second synod. God bless you and your Lenten reflections.
Christopher (Long Island, NY)
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From: LTRENT02
I switched from Catholic (although that's technically impossible, as you're
on the rolls for life); to Lutheran, after a bad divorce not of my own
making, a lot of aggravation re annullment & my parents; to
non-denominational /pentecostal, until they came on 'way too strong 'way
too nosey; back to Catholic. I had to give it a chance, and not let my
views become clouded with my parents goofy sub-cult Catholicsm, as opposed
to what was really there. I am back because I want to be back, although
there are some things I still don't like (hey, if something's perfect, maybe
you're the one who doesn't belong).
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Subj: The Reason Why I Switched From: Kornform
I switched from Christianity to Atheism, because when I grew up, I realized
that Christianity was the "Greatest Cock-and-Bull Story Ever Told."
Subj: I can't From: A Dark One
I was attempted to be raised as a Roman Catholic, and I guess I bought into
it for a while, but as I grew older, I realized what a ridiculous thing it
(religions in general, more specifically anything Xtian) was. My biggest
gripe with religion is that it's thrust upon kids before they have the
ability to decide for themselves or the reasoning to analyze something
rationally...as a result, kids in the US tend to have a latent Xtianity or
concept of an Xtian God as they grow older, something that's hard to shake
because it's been ingrained in them for their entire lives.
Dark.
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From: Mothra
I grew up as a Catholic in a Buddhist household. I went to a Catholic
school that was 99% Buddhist, so the religious curriculum there was not
something that was either supremely emphasized or taken as a full truth. I
rejected Catholicism and Buddhism as any truth when I was an early teen, but
I never ever rejected the concept of God. I became a born-again Christian
in the early 80's, however, and got stuck in this neato church which I
assumed was "the way" until I was able to see how utterly dogmatic it was
from the other two religions I rejected. These churches are great if you
fit into their mold of things, but the wagon wheel breaks for anyone who
defies their standard of living. Plus, I got tired of those stupid debates
on the validity of secular music, movies etc. In anything, the Bible was
again used to justify one's likes or dislikes (most often cultural
differences), and such a criteria was pressed upon others to accept it as an
all-inherent truth of the Bible. I am now a plain ol' non-denominational
Christian with a ton of faith in God, and I rather think things through
thoroughly with prayer and meditation than blindly accept a rule of
religion, simply because someone said it was true.
Mothra
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Subj: My switch to Islam From: Jere
I was born and raised Catholic and attended Catholic schools. I took it all
quite seriously. Traditionaly, lay people did not read the Bible--relying on
priests to interpret. As a child, though, I did read it and had a rather
active prayer life. I said the rosary a lot. My first change came in high
school. I was introduced to Biblical exegisis in the form of "Jesus didn't
do miracles" i.e. they are literary mechanisms. While I can understand this
now (and still maintain faith) at the time I was too young. "If J. didn't do
miracles why believe?" Still prayed: "They say faith is a gift and that is
what I should ask for. Well, if You really *are* please give me faith".
My next change came freshman year of college. I was reading "Be Here Now"
by Ram Dass. A "pop" generic-eastern-religion type book. Ram Dass was
Richard Alpert--kicked out of Harvard with Tim Leary. Well, that book did,
in fact, change my life. Suddenly, religion-in-itself made sense. I even
remember the exact moment of this insight. Guess my prayers for faith were
answered. Started studying Buddhism, meditating and doing yoga. Of course,
this gave my mind some discipline and quiet. I also made some oaths at this
time to strive to reach "it"--i.e. nirvana, enlightenment, union etc. Since
I was believing in reincarnation I reasoned that since I was born Christian
that must be the "tradition" I should do this within. Started going back
to Mass and reading Catholic saints as well as general books on Mysticism.
The saints' accounts of their experiences (and the mystic experience in
general) fascinated me. I re-affirmed my vow to "go all the way".
Continued meditation. Was also studying philosophy (especially existential
and religious) and psychology as well as Eastern religions. Fundamentalist
Christians began to make me irate because of how they alienated people from
looking for God. Realize that at this time I was also quite the
party-monster rock 'n roller ! Kind of got a thrill off combining the
spiritual-intellectual with the party-lady killer!
Graduated and didn't know what to do. Knew grad work of some kind but
didn't know whether in philosophy, psychology or theology. Started, but
didn't finish application process for a seminary. While living in NJ saw
the grad catalogue for Duquesne U. and the Institute for Formative
Spirituality. *Knew* that was what I was going to do. Went and got my MA.
Went to work for the Church as a youth minister. Bad move. Was very
disillusioned. Sick, sick people in the Catholic hierarchy. Went back to
Duquesne for my PhD. No longer considered myself Christian, but did
consider myself a Theist. Had lots 'o problems with Christians. For
instance, I had vast problems with the "Jesus as personal Lord and Savior"
shtick. I always read Jesus as NEVER pointing to himself, but always to the
Father. Thought the Christians had gotten it wrong. The phrase "No one
comes to the Father but through me" I read as meaning by his principles, by
his way of life, not by him personaly. I NEVER prayed to Jesus and felt
VERY uncomfortable with this. Also found I was always having to ask what
people meant when they said "God" "Jesus" "religion" etc. Too many
definitions. Started having lots of faith crises. Fought to maintain faith
by remembering the saints talking about "dark nights" etc. That during
periods when God seems far (or for me non-existent) God is working on the
soul in ways we can't understand. Prayer was "silent" an "offering myself
to". Would, with an act of will *opt for* faith in Deity. When using
words would pray "To the *real* God, to the *One* *True* God, to the God of
Abraham, Isacc, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Jesus", etc.
Began to read about Islam for my dissertation. Had a teacher very
dishonestly try to destroy me--went on for months and though resolved in my
favor, my view of academia was irrevocably changed. No longer interested
in PhD (though classwork is completed). Wrote a lot and started doing
workshops--area of interest: spirituality as a naturaly occuring human
phenomonon. Religion as pre-scientific ways of discussing spirituality.
Decided that though intellectualy I wasn't religious in my *behaviors* I was
religious. Almost like praying in spite of myself.
Read "Autobiography of Malcolm X" and was very impressed. Had extreme
urgency to get a translation of the Qu'ran (in spite of my studies I had yet
to read it!). Started reading the Qu'ran and wept. Wept repeatedly.
Tried to fight it for about two weeks, but then accepted that it is clear
Revelation from Deity. Made my profession of faith "There is no god but God
and Muhammad is a Messenger of God". My prayers were answered and the faith
crises period seems to be over. Now the real growth begins! ....and here I
am!
:-) Jere
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From: LooHoo
I was raised in the Assemblies and have recently left them. I realize not
all "Assemblies people" are like this but I'm tired of the attitude that no
one but them is going to Heaven and they have the only answer. I love the
Lord very much and serve Him faithfully (as much as an imperfect human can),
but I can't believe that the only Christians going to Heaven are
Pentecostal. I have good Christian friends from other denominations and I
fully believe they will be there with me. The Word states we should "Repent
and be ye baptized". "Confess thy sins and He will be faithful and just to
forgive them". I believe that so long as a person accepts Jesus Christ as
their personal Savior and allows Him to be Lord and Ruler of His life they
will receive everlasting life with Him in Heaven.
In one of the last sermons I remember my former pastor bring, he stated that
he had attended a weekly ministerial breakfast and that the other ministers
(of other denominations) had been talking of the problems and struggles
their teenagers were having. Our pastor told us, and them, to "send them
over to our church" where the Spirit was really moving and we would give
them what they couldn't. These other churches he was speaking about are not
dead! The only difference is they do not believe in the Pentecostal
experience happening today! I am attending an on-fire Baptist church and
love it! Granted I miss the freeness of a Pentecostal church but the Lord is
using me here and I feel I am in the right place for now. Are there any
other "Pentecostals" who feel the same? or is it just me? I firmly
believe, as I stated before, that so long as a person accepts Jesus as their
Savior, then they are my brother/sister in Christ and that is the most
important part.
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From: Tim H.
In response to your question as to my journey from Baptist to Lutheran. It
was not, as you say, based on a search for a more conservative base. In
fact I was a "liberal" by Baptist standards. I did not believe in inerrancy
even though I did believe the Bible was "true". Interesting paradox huh?
We can talk about that later. I first became unhappy with the
ultra-conservative, dispensational radical turn to the right that the SBC
had taken over the 13 years of my ministry. It was reflected in a turn to
the right on missions, especially as to a willingness to fund language work,
such as the church I was serving.
After the congregation closed due to the ending of home mission subsidy, I
found myself growing bitter and morose. I stopped attending church for
several weeks. The pastor of the local Lutheran Church invited me to at
least come and worship as God wanted to heal my wounds. My first Lutheran
service was a life-changing revelation. As the service began with the
Confession of Sins, I became deeply aware that my bitterness against the SBC
and its members was sin on my part. I confessed from my heart in the words
of the LBW Confession of Sins and realized peace for the first time in
months. I fell in "love" with Lutheran worship but was still a Baptist
doctrinally. (somewhat liberal at that). Over the course of about a year,
through a diligent search of the Scriptures I gained a Lutheran
understanding doctrinally and was confirmed. The day I was confirmed I
resigned my Baptist ordination, which is expected under Baptist polity. I
was ordained as Lutheran after completing my seminary colloquy requirement
and receiving a call from my present congregation
.
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Subj: I became an Episcopalian.... From : Rad Rover
...in 1981 after attending the funeral of a very close friend at an
Episcopal church in 1972. I took a long time to be confirmed, but as I look
at the Episcopal Church in America now, I begin to wonder if my early
experiences were flukes.
I was introduced to a very, very active church in 1972 and attended there
until I entered military service in 1980. The Episcopalian chaplains and
churches that I encountered in my military career were also fairly active in
their faith and their communities. Now, I see the church relaxing its
spiritual rigor and preparing to tear itself apart over homosexual
ordination and marriages and the "blessing" of other relationships which are
very clearly scripturally prohibited all in the name of relevance to
"modern" society. Isn't the Church supposed to be the "light of the world"
and the "salt of the earth"? I am concerned that the Episcopal Church, as
a whole, is losing its "savor" (or perhaps its "Savior").
My wife and I were very sorry to see the portion of the Eucharist which
starts out "We do not presume to come...trusting in our own
righteousness..." deleted from Rite II. It seems that most of the churches
we have attended in the last few years could use a good reminder of our
proper relationship to God. I still go to that church I first attended in
1972 whenever I am home and it has really hurt to watch them struggle to
remain faithful to God and obedient to the Church authorities. I am not
sure what my wife and I will do if this trend continues. It is refreshing
to know that there are still some Episcopal Churches like the one I was
